Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/22/1995 10:05 AM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES                           
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON HB 280                                    
                         April 22, 1995                                        
                           10:05 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chairman                                    
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
 Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chairman                                         
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Al Vezey                                                       
                                                                               
 WORK SESSION CALENDAR                                                         
                                                                               
 HB 280: "An Act establishing the Alaska Human Resource Investment            
 Council and transferring certain functions of other                           
 entities to the council; establishing planning mechanism                      
 for employment training and other human resource                              
 investment needs; and providing for an effective date."                       
                                                                               
   HEARD AND HELD                                                              
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL: HB 280                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: HUMAN RESOURCE INVESTMENT COUNCIL                                
 SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                  
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG             ACTION                                        
 03/24/95       896    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/24/95       896    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                      
 03/24/95       896    (H)   FISCAL NOTE (GOV)                                 
 03/24/95       896    (H)   4 ZERO FNS (DCED, CRA, DOE, DHSS)                 
 03/24/95       897    (H)   2 ZERO FNS (LABOR, UA)                            
 03/24/95       897    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                     
 03/24/95       899    (H)   SECTIONAL ANALYSIS                                
 04/20/95              (H)   HES AT 02:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 04/20/95              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 04/22/95              (H)   HES AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 106                       
                                                                               
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 Bob Rubadeau, Special Assistant                                               
 Lieutenant Governor's Office                                                  
 P.O. Box 110015                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska  99811-0015                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3520                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 280                                     
                                                                               
 Joseph McCormick, Executive Director                                          
 Post Secondary Education Commission                                           
 Department of Education                                                       
 3030 Vintage Blvd.                                                            
 Juneau, Alaska  99801-7109                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-6740                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 280                                     
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 HB 280 -  HUMAN RESOURCE INVESTMENT COUNCIL                                 
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-41, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR CYNTHIA TOOHEY called the Health, Education and Social               
 Services subcommittee on HB 280 to order at 10:05 a.m.  She                   
 introduced the participants, including the representatives.  Co-              
 chair Toohey and Representative Robinson agreed that it was                   
 Representative Rokeberg who had initial concerns about the size and           
 command of HB 280. Although he was not initially present,                     
 Representative Rokeberg was expected momentarily.  There was some             
 general discussion about a new adopted amendment to the Senate                
 version of this bill and it was determined that the committee                 
 needed to acquire the latest House version of this bill.                      
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY outlined what she believed to be Representative               
 Rokeberg's concerns more specifically.  His initial concern was               
 unintelligible, something about an unwieldy committee, and the                
 second concern was that it (the Alaska Human Resource Investment              
 Council) was slated to be lead by the Lieutenant Governor.                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY then offered that the amendment before her was                
 practical.  She was not specific as to what amendment she was                 
 actually referencing.  Generally, the amendment delegated shared              
 leadership of the council to a chairman and co-chairman.  One seat            
 would be occupied by someone from the private sector and the other            
 from the public sector.                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON wondered what defined private sector.           
 From past experience she understood that private sector was defined           
 as someone who was a non-state employee and preferably from the               
 nonprofit sector.  Representative Robinson pointed out that she               
 didn't necessarily feel strongly one way or another about this                
 criteria and that she didn't have a problem with the Lieutenant               
 Governor holding the position of main chair.                                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY then asked what section of the original bill dealt            
 with who would be the leader of the group.                                    
                                                                               
 BOB RUBADEAU, Special Assistant, Lieutenant Governor's Office,                
 outlined for the committee that the Lieutenant Governor would                 
 appoint the co-chairmen, one from the public sector and one from              
 the private sector.  In summary, there were comments made about               
 what described groups would make up the committee.  The comments by           
 Mr. Rubadeau regarding this subject matter were barely audible.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked why it was that Senators Leman and              
 Sharp found it necessary to draft an amendment regarding leadership           
 of the council  She also referred to the attached memorandum.                 
 Representative Robinson thought the title read well just the way it           
 was.                                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. RUBADEAU, responded that from past experience they did not have           
 consistent successes with a co-chairmen system when coupled with              
 councils of the same size.  He explained further that the intent              
 was to seat someone of a high level personage to lead the council.            
 He stressed that the governmental and private sector partnership              
 embodied in the structure of the co-chairs was a very important               
 component.  It would help facilitate the attendance of either                 
 chairman to negotiations with business agencies or public speaking            
 engagement, etcetera. This co-chair leadership would also lend                
 itself to changes of administrations resulting from elections.                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said she had no problem with this structure and               
 then stated for the record that Representative Rokeberg had just              
 joined the meeting.  Representative Rokeberg also did not have a              
 problem with the proposed co-chair matrix.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON clarified that it seemed the consensus was            
 to adopt the Senate language which doesn't allow for co-chairmen.             
 What she understood Mr. Rubadeau to say was that by having co-                
 chairmen, private and public, a partnership is built.  She wanted             
 to confirm that the committee recommends one of the chairmen be               
 recruited from the private sector.                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY pointed out that the Senate version of the bill had           
 already gone through appointed committees and that she foresaw this           
 version becoming the vehicle for both houses.  She didn't have a              
 problem with a co-chairman's split between private and public                 
 influences, but pointed out that it clearly doesn't define these              
 terms in enough detail.  She suggested that the issue of private              
 and public chairmen be discussed in full committee proceedings.               
                                                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG offered that he preferred the Senate           
 version of this bill since it would expedite matters.  He agreed              
 that the co-chair concept should be discussed in full committee               
 hearings.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON again stressed that she appreciates the               
 concept of public and private sector co-chairmen working together             
 on a council such as this one.                                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY, along with Representatives Robinson and Rokeberg             
 agreed that the make-up of the council should be decided by a full            
 committee, as to whether or not the Lieutenant Governor would                 
 occupy a seat, as well as whether or not the co-chair positions               
 would be filled by private or public sector individuals.  There was           
 also some discussion regarding Fran Ulmer specifically as a                   
 chairperson in the present capacity of Lieutenant Governor.                   
 Everyone agreed that Ms. Ulmer possessed more than adequate                   
 abilities to hold a position on the council, but the abilities                
 regarding unknown predecessors was called into question.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG reiterated that he preferred the Senate               
 version of the bill, as versus Representatives Robinson and Toohey            
 who preferred the House version.  Representative Rokeberg added               
 that he felt both the seats of chairman should be occupied by the             
 private sector, but he didn't feel adamant about this.  He also               
 added that the concept of private sector should be defined in more            
 specific terms.  Technically, anyone who is not employed in a                 
 public capacity could be considered a private entity.                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON, suggested that in defining what determines           
 a private status, cautioned against precluding anyone.  It was                
 decided that the existing language in the House bill concerning co-           
 chairs, one from the public and one from the private sector would             
 stand as outlined.                                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG voiced his concern about how unwieldy the             
 established size of the Investment Council seemed.                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY offered that there would be many subcommittees                
 appointed under this council, which would help reduce the amount of           
 council members in theory just by the tasks assigned to the various           
 subcommittees.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG cited the percentage rule as a means to               
 establish the balance.  If they began deleting members from the               
 public sector, they would be required to delete from the private              
 sector too.  He used this as an example of why he proposed cutting            
 the Lieutenant Governor and commissioner of the Department of                 
 Community and Regional Affairs from holding a position on the                 
 council.                                                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY directed the question of the council's percentage             
 break down to Mr. Rubadeau.                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. RUBADEAU stated that the percentage rule for establishing such            
 a council is laid out specifically in federal law.  If two of the             
 four commissioners were dropped from the council, they'd probably             
 be able to drop one of the private or education sectors from the              
 roster and still meet the minimum 15 percent requirements.                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated in response to the size of the                 
 council that literally there were limited amounts of rooms around             
 the state large enough to accommodate the council for meetings.               
 Co-chair Toohey pointed out that the meetings could be conducted by           
 teleconference.  Representative Robinson asked if there were 26               
 members slated to be on the council.  Everyone pointed out that 26            
 was the maximum amount.  Representative Rokeberg finally asked how            
 a council of that size could be effectively managed.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON then asked if the government sector people            
 would be required to cover their own expenses for travel to                   
 meetings, etcetera, or would those costs be included in the                   
 council's budget.                                                             
                                                                               
 MR. RUBADEAU stated that they anticipate the government sector will           
 pick up their own costs and he pointed out that most of the board             
 meetings will take place in Anchorage.  He also added that it would           
 be more ideal to reduce the amount of members on the council, but             
 there are so many potential players around the state that could               
 benefit from this council as a tool.  The decision to cut becomes             
 more difficult.                                                               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked what happens if all members to the council              
 are not present.  She understood that the meetings would still go             
 on.  Again, it was pointed out that subcommittees would be                    
 established to carry through with specific business and                       
 teleconferencing could aid to consolidate the council's diverse               
 membership.  These subcommittees could then come together as a                
 whole to adopt policy.                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about some additional 13 other                  
 councils which could also be absorbed into this council.                      
                                                                               
 MR. RUBADEAU answered that, yes, initially they looked at some                
 potential volunteer councils that could be absorbed into the                  
 council, such as Americorp for example.  There then followed a                
 lengthy discussion about what Americorp was and the types of                  
 volunteer work they do.                                                       
                                                                               
 JOSEPH MCCORMICK, Post Secondary Education Commission, Department             
 of Education, referred to language of HB 280 outlined on Page 2,              
 line 15 through 20 regarding "the purposes of the act,"  as a pre-            
 requisite to a discussion about the concept of outcome.  Mr.                  
 McCormick suggested language which would mandate program outcome              
 assessments managed by the council.  Based on the dollars that are            
 spent in a training program, how many people were placed, how many            
 jobs were filled, how receptive was industry to absorb people into            
 the labor force of Alaska, etcetera.  Over a period of time the               
 council should establish meaningful outcome assessment programs               
 based on similar criteria.  The council could come back to the                
 legislature and report on what's working and what's not.                      
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked how this type of language could be                      
 incorporated and under what section?  There was some discussion               
 about just where to insert this language.  Representative Robinson            
 suggested that a rough draft of the actual language should be                 
 created and then they could rely on Mr. Rubadeau to edit this                 
 language.  There was some additional discussion about how presently           
 vocational rehab reported on the numbers of people it served, but             
 it was pointed out that there was no follow-up on how many of these           
 clients were absorbed in the work force or into other alternative             
 programs after rehab was completed.                                           
                                                                               
 MR. MCCORMICK cited that outcome measures should be divided in                
 three levels: who actually completed the program of vocational                
 rehab; of those who did complete the program, how many of them got            
 jobs; and if training was provided through loans or other types of            
 financing, how was the money paid back?  He went on to stress that            
 it was important to look at the integration of curriculum                     
 development.  This does not currently exist.  There are separate              
 vocational organized under the Department of Education, apart from            
 vocational training through the University of Alaska.  In addition            
 to this, there are approximately 70 proprietary schools which train           
 people in specific fields.  Mr. McCormick felt that there needed to           
 be a very strong coordination of these efforts, which could also be           
 a role of this council.  He stated that it doesn't matter what                
 program a person chooses.  It does matter that the curriculum is              
 consistent and strong.                                                        
                                                                               
 MR. MCCORMICK offered the following language which would                      
 encapsulate his concerns as previously outlined to read, "To                  
 sponsor a meaningful program with outcome assessment that                     
 effectively measures the success or failure of the efforts of this            
 council."  The members decided to insert this language into Section           
 1, line 18 of the current bill version.                                       
                                                                               
 MR. MCCORMICK stated another concern of his which dealt with a                
 section of the bill about designating a member of the investment              
 council to be a member of the Post Secondary Commission.  He                  
 recommended flip-flopping this.  Because the council is given the             
 responsibility to license or re-license some 70 voc-tech schools in           
 the state, there should be a member of the Post Secondary                     
 Commission on the council to help advise with the policy of                   
 vocational training in the state, as versus a member of the                   
 vocational council on the commission advising on the issue of                 
 student aid policy.                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. RUBADEAU spoke to this specific language outlined in HB 280.              
 He pointed out that the appointment of an investment council member           
 is mandated in the state statute right now.  The language is in the           
 process of repeal and revision, but it is already in the post                 
 secondary education bylaws.  It requires that someone from GECO               
 (Governor's Council on Vocational Education) be appointed a seat on           
 the Post Secondary Education Commission.  Mr Rubadeau pointed out             
 that on page 4, line 7 there's mention of appointing someone from             
 a post secondary vocational education institution, which addresses            
 Mr. McCormick's concern about instating an appointee from the                 
 business world.  Mr. Rubadeau closed by stating that everybody in             
 the world wanted a seat on this commission and they tried to                  
 accommodate everybody's needs.                                                
                                                                               
 MR. MCCORMICK appreciated Mr. Rubadeau's concern about everybody              
 requesting representation, but he pointed out that the fact                   
 remains, the state licenses any school that wants to teach                    
 vocational training outside the purview of the University of                  
 Alaska.  There was some additional discussion about deleting a                
 member from the Post Secondary Commission.  Mr. McCormick said he'd           
 be pleased to have 13 members instead of 14 on this council, but              
 Mr. Rubadeau reminded him that this number is also in statute.  Mr.           
 Rubadeau did say they were trying to amend the name of the two                
 members, which would involve deleting sub-section 5 on line 12                
 through 14.  No one present had a problem with this suggestion.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON stated for the record that she appreciates            
 having a smaller board to work with because it facilitates getting            
 work done and meeting quorum requirements.                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked that the participants work together to make             
 the necessary changes to the bill as discussed.  She also asked               
 that a cover letter be created to explain these changes to their              
 Senate counterparts.  Co-chair Toohey adjourned the meeting.                  
                                                                               

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